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My Pokemon Tiering System Explained (For Beginners)

Comments

Avatar Skeptical
30 Jun 2019 20:15
Why is there a big novel down me 👇
Avatar Draconid_Jo
01 Jul 2019 02:11
In reply to Skeptical
Because I'm too combative, lol!
(And too long-winded, too.)
Avatar Skeptical
01 Jul 2019 02:18
In reply to Draconid_Jo
Ehh, you're not long winded

Sometimes i just feel like you talk a lot
Avatar Star Shadow
30 Jun 2019 00:54
I'll stick to my own extremely simple two tier system. Anything Goes and Mega Rayquaza's ****es.

On a serious note, I'll stick with Smogon's tier system. Sure, you claim to be a competitive battler but that's nothing compared to the collective experience of thousands of players on Showdown or people in VGCs. Smogon's tier system isn't perfect but it's been tested and evaluated by thousands of people with a ranking system to further validate the viability of the Pokemon they use. Not only that, it's the most widely accepted tier system in the competitive scene. I doubt you'll ever make your own personal tier work. Plus, your tier naming system is more confusing than Smogon's.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 01:22
In reply to Star Shadow
I hear you're the best player here, with the possible exception of Luisjo.

I'm NOT a Competitive Player, unfortunately.
I'm just a really old Player, who's really competitive, that's all.

And I've all but given up on those who reject my System.
Obviously, we'll have to agree to disagree.

My only concern is that Casual Players, and New Players give it a chance, not Competitive Players who just aren't going to be convinced.

If you would (and are able to) like to Battle sometime, I'd appreciate it.

And if you want to know why I'm not a Competitive Player, ask Mimi or Banjo.
I have a pretty sucky real life.
Avatar IblisFlare
29 Jun 2019 04:03
"You aren't allowed to use Dittos that have the Ability Imposter, because they are too powerful, as well. "

I thought Imposter and Transform were functionally identical to each other, with the only difference being that transform is used as a move whereas Imposter activates upon being switched in. Is there something I'm missing about Imposter?
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 04:22
In reply to IblisFlare
No, you're right.
Basically, it's just because Imposter works immediately, without the need to use a Move.

If I didn't place them in a higher Tier, then regular Dittos would kinda be at a disadvantage.

I'm not sure about that particular Rule, BTW, and I'm probably going to change it.

My System is supposed to be a Minimalist, Hands-off one, that just prevents ridiculously unfair Battles from occurring, like when a Dragon Master (like me) Battles someone who likes Cute Pokémon (like my sister), where the second person isn't given a fair shot, simply because my Pokémon are too OP.
Avatar IblisFlare
29 Jun 2019 04:27
In reply to Draconid_Jo
I just don't see how it makes a difference when the two do the same thing, just one works earlier. Especially given that the HP stat isn't copied.
Avatar Dedode
29 Jun 2019 23:24
In reply to IblisFlare
It's simple. Imposter is better cause Transform takes up a turn.
Avatar IblisFlare
30 Jun 2019 02:02
In reply to Dedode
Yeah, but then you lose the flexibility of Transform, which lets you choose your target in doubles/triples whereas Imposter just takes the one directly across from Ditto.
Avatar Dedode
30 Jun 2019 03:07
In reply to IblisFlare
Yeah that's why we would need to make another tier list for double battles :^DDD
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 07:00
In reply to Dedode
You're a really sharp guy, you know that?

I didn't include you in that poll of mine, but I'm beginning to suspect you're the best Pokémon Player here, lol!

I still think Angela's probably the best, though. She probably just didn't get as many Votes because too many people were jealous of that awesome Palkia Avatar of hers, lol!
(Seriously, that one's even cooler than mine!)
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 23:54
In reply to Dedode
While that DOES make sense (which is why I initially did things the way I did), upon further reflection, I don't think it 's a big deal.

Anyone with any degree of creativity realizes the potential of a non-Imposter Ditto in a Double, Triple, or Multi Battle.

And besides, my System isn't supposed to punish those who happen to have HA Pokémon, just to ensure fairness, and a REASONABLE degree of balance.

It's not constantly trying to achieve the inevitably impossible goal of perfect balance, which is always going to be affected by the ingenuity (or lack thereof) of the Competitive Players who use said System.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 04:35
In reply to IblisFlare
You're probably right.

I'm thinking I'll change it.
Avatar Siling-La
28 Jun 2019 19:05
Likeee!
Avatar Draconid_Jo
28 Jun 2019 21:54
In reply to Siling-La
THANK YOU!!!

You have NO IDEA how much that means to me!

All these Competitive Players (or MOST, anyway) seem to reject my System simply because it's not like the old one, with a bunch of overly opinionated people "assessing" each Pokémon, and "sorting" them into Tiers.

My System is WAY more objective, and bases things on reality, rather than my own opinions, like their System does.
Avatar Dedode
28 Jun 2019 18:42
Welp, tiers only mean anything once you put it into test. That way you get to know what Pokemon overcentralize the metagame. For example Greninja or Aegislash, they look like any "powerful tier" Pokemon, but thanks to their flexible movesets, abilities and right items they can easily take over the tier, to the point that every team needs a Greninja and Aegislash to even compete.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
28 Jun 2019 21:49
In reply to Dedode
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with that logic.

A creative Player (like myself) can come up with any number of effective strategies for ANY Pokémon.

To basing Tiering on what people (even if it's Competitive Players) are smart enough to know how to use properly is ridiculous IMHO, and I for one believe it should be based on more objective factors, rather than things like popularity.
Avatar Luisjo96
28 Jun 2019 23:08
In reply to Draconid_Jo
Don't really think the "le i can just make counters for everything" argument even applies here tbh
If that was true then your own tiers would be useless too.
Because there's way more to pokémon other than their objective stats
Things like abilities
Moves that can be learned
Efficiency
Combinations
All kinds of strats
Are a game changing, not saying your idea should be disapproved but you're ignoring so much just touching the surface that it sounds like you've never played online or at any ranked match/competition before, ever :l
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 04:14
In reply to Luisjo96
You've got a point, but your also missing the point.

To understand why I created this System, you have to first understand why I don't like the current System:

1. Double Standards

The White Kyurem>Black Kyurem thing is a perfect example of this.
My own Common Sense, and my 20 Years of Experience (although those Pokémon haven't even been around for half of that) as a Hardcore, Dragon-loving Pokémon Trainer tell me one thing, and Smogon tells me another.
A Double Standard this ridiculous shouldn't even be possible in a Tiering System, as far as I'm concerned.

2. The Tiers are constantly in flux

Whether they're basing it off of Popularity, or Win Rates, or even analyzing every Pokémon to death constantly (AFAIK they do all 3), the problem is that Pokémon will inevitably change Tiers WAY too often, with insufficient justification to do so.
IMHO, Pokémon should only change Tiers if a MASSIVE change occurs, such as Gengar's Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb becoming Special Attack Moves in Gen 4.

3. Inflexibility

IF you give a Porygon2 an Eviolite, it becomes quite powerful, arguably more powerful than Porygon-Z, and both Systems tak e this into account.
But what if Porygon2 ISN'T holding an Eviolite?
Theirs doesn't consider this possibility (AFAIK), mine does.

4. It's too complicated

If a Hardcore Pokémon Veteran like me thinks it's too convoluted, imagine how a Casual Player, or a Newbie feels.
My System is designed to be understandable by EVERYONE.



Apparently, our 2 Systems are trying to do 2 very different things.
Theirs is trying to "decentralize" the "Metagame", whereas mine is just trying to make Battling more fair for EVERYONE, in a Minimalist, Conservative, Common Sense way.

And my dad never allowed me to go Competitive, or even to get a Trainer Club Account.
(If you want to know more about my crummy RL situation, just ask Banjo or Mimi, they can tell you.
Avatar Luisjo96
29 Jun 2019 18:01
In reply to Draconid_Jo
lol
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 22:42
In reply to Luisjo96
Is that the most intelligent reply you could come up with?

I hope your skill in Battle is greater than the power of your imagination, lol.
Avatar Finrod
28 Jun 2019 23:57
In reply to Luisjo96
Luis I feel you, you've fought honorably.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 22:53
In reply to Finrod
Yes, he has fought honorably, but that doesn'tmake him (or you) right.

In fact, nothing can prove that my System is wrong, unless it gets used somewhere, and results in these imbalances that y'all seem to think will occur.

Since this is unlikely to happen, that's not really my goal here.

My goal is to create a System for the future Competitive Players, not close-minded people who desperately cling to the Status Quo, as though there were no alternatives.

Eventually, my System will probably have some limited degree of success.

And even if it doesn't, then I will use it myself, for my own Battles with other Players, as it is a perfectly reasonable alternative to that thing they have over at Smogon.

I doubt you, or any other Fan of the Smogon System, is even capable of looking at it from my perspective, as a Hardcore, non-Competitive, Veteran Player.
Avatar Finrod
30 Jun 2019 00:15
In reply to Draconid_Jo
Dude nobody even mind/cares anymore. I'm not following up with another wall of text, respect some people by giving space. Take a hint that nobody is even bothering to reply to you lol.

I say 1 unrelated sentence and you can't even give it a break dude xD Just gonna delete every notif lol.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 00:20
In reply to Finrod
As long as y'all keep hating on me, and dismissing my opinions, and making false statements, and speaking out of ignorance, and disrespecting my ideas, I will continue to refute every narrow-minded point that y'all make.

If y'all give up, and call it quits, that's not my problem, lol!
Avatar Finrod
30 Jun 2019 00:31
In reply to Draconid_Jo
So that's how you've been taking it, our first PM included you being cool with discussion. Multiple comments of yours on other people's profiles, are about repenting I literally was gonna send you a friend request back tommorow (yesterday, so today) but you continue'd to run off. Now your saying you'll continue to disrespect us. Nobody was hating on you, there's a difference between criticism and hate. You've just been taking it the wrong way, honestly it's kind of toxic behavior considering we've both apologized (or at least been more lenient) and noted it as simple discussion. We're just competiive people so we talk competiively. I don't think you can handle criticism is all.
Hypocrisy is real
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 00:42
In reply to Finrod
While I expected criticism, I didn't expect people to be COMPLETELY incapable of seeing things from my perspective.

You see, I have no real life.
I sit in a chair, in a roach-infested rathole, being forced to sweep rabbit feces off the floor each day, being yelled at by my father, for no reason other than the fact I'm doing one of the few things he actually allows me, a 24 Year old man, to do, that I actually enjoy: Play Pokémon.

I'm obsessed with Pokémon, and quite arrogant, and I'm aVERY competitive person by nature.

I never was allowed to participate in competitions.
In fact, I'm not allowed to be here on Paint right now.

One of the few things I've been allowed to do in life is play Video Games, and Pokémon is BY FAR my favorite.

When I come here, and put forward my ideas, which make perfect sense given my experience as a Hardcore Gamer, only to be rejectedon the sole basis that I was never Competitive, I feel pretty crummy, considering I think I'm a pretty skilled Player, and I never had I choice in the matter.

*Sigh*…
I doubt any of you could understand…
Avatar Finrod
30 Jun 2019 01:54
In reply to Draconid_Jo
You understand our perspective right? You understand that the tier makes literal most sense to us. Your ideas contradict ours. And when you made your own tier. It's a contradiction to ours. So yes we can't relate to you on that aspect. And I know I'll probably never be in your situation but we've already had signs that some of your ideas were bias towards you. That's just how opinion works. I mean you kind of made this tier blog because you don't like our tiers. So of course, sorry dude.

Honestly if this was just it. I can overlook it. But we've already had signs of you being kind of.... rude. Being in a scummy situation doesn't excuse your backlash as well. YOU TRASHED ME just for not thinking the way you did. and now your saying you don't like how we don't treat your opinion as equally? It's kind of scummy itself. I already felt bad criticizing you in the first blog (which wasn't even terrible, it was nice actually). And I was glad you sent me the "NO HARD FEELINGS" pm.

You ignored some of our opinions early on as well I can send you screenshots EVEN. We can use the last comment you made as an example of you being rude. You admit to ignoring us and not caring anymore..... You didn't even properly adress my comment you just gave us your life story as an excuse for your actions.

Now I'm just gonna say this: I'm geniunely sorry. But since you've done inexcusable actions in the past....., (like trash talking, ignoring,etc ) I can't help but be WAY to confrontational just to let one point across. So I apologize sincerely.

So which is why I just chose to private myself because dude I just want you to stop trashing on us really. I know we both feel bad literally for doing this.

Just quit it, and maybe if we can do this again listen to us as well.
Avatar Finrod
30 Jun 2019 01:58
In reply to Finrod
I think I commented before that Im literally carefree and will forget this in a day. So dude if you just understand and be respectful to, I will literally not even mention anything you've ever done "wrong". Honestly I'll forget it. XD Anyway I'm on a timer anyway so I'm just gonna peace out.
Avatar oswaldo123
30 Jun 2019 09:48
In reply to Finrod
What's up with all the essays being written geez I'm not gonna bother and try and figure out what's going on
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 11:05
In reply to oswaldo123
Sorry, waldo.

The fact of the matter is, while my Friends and Supporters like my Tiering System, most Competitive Pokémon Players don't.

The reason for these long posts was me trying to explain why I designed it the way I did, but I've pretty much given up.

If anyone likes it, and wants to use it, however, feel free to do so. It'll make me feel a little better about it.
Avatar Draconid_Jo
30 Jun 2019 06:54
In reply to Finrod
I know…

And I AM truly sorry for being so dismissive of y'all, it's just that I thought at least one person might leave some comment saying something like:
"Wow! I'm glad someone thought of something better than Smogon's System! I've been a Competitive Player for years, and this is WAY better than the old System!"

But that didn't happen.
Not one Competitive Player (out of those who Commented, anyway) even gave it a chance.

In fact, some of them (like Luisjo) thought I was doing this to get back at you somehow, even though I don't understand how designing this would do that.

Either way, though, while there are certain things I'll never agree with (like the Kyurem thing), I've given up on my little "Revolution" for now.

It just goes to show you:
"You don't drain The Swamp, The Swamp drains YOU."

And although I'm a Dragon-Type user, The Swamp just landed one nasty Giga Drain on me just now, lol!
(Apparently, I missed that Sign at the entrance to The Swamp's Secret Base, that said that the Battle Format was Inverse Battles, lol!)

Anyway, lame, politically incorrect Pokémon jokes aside, I'd like to apologize YET AGAIN, and just tell you (and every other defender of the Smogon System) that I'm done trying to change your opinions, and that this System here is just meant for Casual Battles here on Paint (or possibly elsewhere), between anyone who wants to use it.

Hopefully, it can at least be useful for that.
Avatar Dedode
28 Jun 2019 22:51
In reply to Draconid_Jo
It's not about popularity, those things are based on win rates people have with said Pokemon. Personally I think that these problems are inherent of tier system. You know, like banning certain Pokemon from a tier means that another Pokemon becomes stronger in that tier and so on etc
Avatar Draconid_Jo
29 Jun 2019 04:34
In reply to Dedode
Just because a Pokémon has a low win rate doesn't mean it's weaker.

I distinctly remember someone telling me that Sharpedo was a "lower tier" Pokémon, and attempted to convince me it's not useful in tougher Battles because of this.
I use Mega Sharpedo ALL THE TIME against MDT Pokémon, and it's VERY POWERFUL.

Even in my own System, Sharpedo is only RT, and Mega Sharpedo's only PT (although it's almost DT), but I still use them both alongside, and against MDT Pokémon, and with great success, too.

My System is at least based upon something that's consistent, and not constantly changing.

If there's a HUGE imbalance, where a certain Move, Ability, or Item, makes a certain Pokémon ridiculously OP, then I'll adjust the Rules.

To me, neither Aegislash, nor Protean Greninja (which is what I assume you were referring to) seem all that OP, and in fact I've taken them both out with Mega Sharpedo quite often.
(Remember: Type-Matchups still play a role, too, lol!)
Avatar Draconid_Jo
28 Jun 2019 05:56
I plan on eventually making a complete list of ALL Pokémon, that shows what Tiers they are in, in both my System, and the Mainstream ones.

In the meantime, I recommend carefully reading the descriptions of the different Tiers, and looking up Pokémon online, to see their Base Stat totals, so you know which Tier they belong to.
Avatar banjo2
28 Jun 2019 06:13
In reply to Draconid_Jo
Isn't there nearly a thousand?
Avatar Draconid_Jo
28 Jun 2019 07:06
In reply to banjo2
A little over 800, at the moment.

Probably will be close to 1,000 when Sword and Shield come out, though.

And yes, I did consider that.
(I'm obsessive compulsive. I HAVE to do it, lol!)
Avatar Rlad116
30 Jun 2019 17:38
In reply to Draconid_Jo
It won't because sword and shield is picking and choosing what Pokemon come from the previous generations
Avatar Draconid_Jo
01 Jul 2019 00:47
In reply to Rlad116
I know, but based on previous Regions, Galar could add anywhere between 70 and 160 New Pokémon.

If it's towards the upper end of that range, it still wouldn't be 1,000, but it'd be pretty close.
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