Konnichiwa!

After I wrote my 2nd Legendary Pokémon recommendations blog, I was surprised when it had received nothing but criticism from many of the competitive Pokémon players here on Paint, because of just 2 of the over 140 moves that I had recommended in it: Fly on Landorus, and Sheer Cold on Articuno.

Additionally, almost all of the criticism about me recommending the move Fly for Landorus was based on this idea that 2 turn moves (Dig, Fly, Dive, Bounce, Shadow Force, and Phantom Force, specifically) were all "dead giveaways", and that they're "totally useless moves" when used against skilled human opponents (such as competitive Pokémon players), but is this really the case?

This video of a battle between Angela and Waffle was presented as an example of why such moves shouldn't be used in battles against skilled human opponents, and the things that happened (and perhaps more importantly, the things that didn't happen) during the battle in that video will be the subject of this blog.

If you can't play the YouTube video of the battle in your browser, don't worry, as I will explain most of what happens in it (or at least in the first few turns) throughout the course of this blog.

First of all, this video doesn't show the Team Preview of the battle, so we can't see Angela's or Waffle's full team of 6 Pokémon, but only the 3 Pokémon that each of them chose to use in this battle.
(This doesn't necessarily diminish the educational value of the video, but it's still worth keeping in mind.)

Now, based upon what's shown in the video, these are the moves of Angela's Regirock:

[spoiler=Angela's Regirock's Moveset] -Thunder Wave
-Stone Edge
-Drain Punch
-Stealth Rock [/spoiler]

This is a pretty good moveset for a Regirock, and Angela's moveset is actually very similar to this one that I saw available for use in the Battle Agency the other day:

[spoiler=Rental Regirock's Moveset] -Thunder Wave
-Stone Edge
-Hammer Arm
-Earthquake [/spoiler]

It is worth noting that Earthquake does better against Garchomp than any of the moves of Angela's Regirock, and it would've inflicted 2× damage against Waffle's Garchomp if it struck them while they were using Dig.
(This doesn't make having a Regirock use Earthquake against a Garchomp at the start of battle the correct course of action either, though.)

Angela having her Regirock use Stealth Rock in this situation was an EXTREMELY risky move, and had she been up against a Garchomp with a slightly better moveset (even one with Dig), this easily could've backfired on her, and cost her the entire battle.
(Which I will explain in more detail later on in the blog.)

Now, based on what's shown in the video, these are the moves of Waffle's Garchomp:

[spoiler=Waffle's Garchomp's Moveset] -Dragon Claw
-Dig
-Crunch
-???[/spoiler]

We don't see his Garchomp's 4th move in the video, but it's pretty safe to assume that it isn't Earthquake, otherwise he'd probably have used it instead of Dig.

It is also safe to assume that it isn't a Rock-type move, as any of Garchomp's Rock-type moves (even Rock Tomb) would've OHKO'd Angela's Charizard, based upon how much damage Dragon Claw did.
(I'm guessing that his Garchomp's 4th move is probably Slash, not that it matters.)

Anyway, Waffle has his Garchomp use Dig on the very first turn of battle (it's almost always a mistake to use a 2 turn move on the first turn of battle, BTW), and Angela has her Regirock use Stealth Rock, which means that the 1st turn of Dig (which would normally allow Garchomp to avoid an attack move from their opponent) essentially goes to waste.

Next turn, Angela knows that Waffle's Garchomp has no choice but to attack with Dig (that "dead giveaway" that my moveset blog's critics refer to), and so she switches out her Regirock for her Charizard, which is immune to Dig.

Now, where I take the most issue with this video is on the next turn, when Angela has her Charizard use Dragon Pulse, and then Waffle's Garchomp uses Dragon Claw.

First of all, Garchomp is faster than Charizard (including both of Charizard's Mega Evolutions), and yet Waffle's Garchomp is slower than Angela's Charizard, which means that his Garchomp has a Nature that doesn't increase Speed, and/or hasn't had it's Speed stat maxed out.
(Which makes it a VERY flawed Garchomp to use as an example to make any sort of point, to say the least.)

Also, as I already mentioned earlier, any Rock-type move in Garchomp's movepool would've been able to OHKO Angela's Charizard, and yet despite this, Angela didn't switch out her Charizard after switching it in to counter Garchomp's Dig, which gave his Garchomp a chance to potentially OHKO them.
(Unless she already knew Waffle's Garchomp's moveset, IDK.)

Basically, she was up against a poorly trained Garchomp that happened to know Dig, and because of the flaws of Waffle's Garchomp, she was able to win the battle, despite making some MASSIVE mistakes in the first few turns of battle herself.

I'm not going to comment on the rest of the battle, as it is unrelated to the subject of this blog, but if she had been facing a better trained Garchomp, she would've lost this battle, even if said Garchomp knew Dig.

If she had been up against a Garchomp like the one that Cynthia uses in the PWT, these missteps of Angela's would've cost her the battle.

[spoiler=Cynthia's PWT Garchomp] Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Swords Dance [/spoiler]

On the first turn of battle, when Angela chose to have her Regirock (which is weak against Ground-type moves) use Stealth Rock against a Garchomp, a properly trained Garchomp (like the one above) would've been able to take advantage of this, most likely by using Swords Dance.

As the 4th choice in this poll implies, Swords Dance is an EXTREMELY powerful move when used by Garchomp (or countless other Pokémon, including my Landorus), and after 1 use of Swords Dance, a Garchomp like Cynthia's (or any of my own Garchomps, for that matter) would've been able to sweep through Angela's entire team, and in the case of Cynthia's Garchomp, this would be done with a combination of Stone Edge (which would've OHKO'D Angela's Charizard) and Earthquake (which is super effective against both Angela's Regirock and Metagross), which is commonly referred to as "EdgeQuake" by competitive Pokémon players.
(Which Angela herself taught me, BTW.)

Also, it is worth noting that Garchomp can actually learn Stealth Rock, too, and if Waffle had his Garchomp use Stealth Rock on the first turn (just like Angela had her her Regirock do), Charizard would've lost ½ of their HP the moment she sent them into battle, putting her Charizard at risk of being KO'd by Waffle's Garchomp (even with Dig, and no other Rock-type moves) should she switch it in, and this possibly would've deterred her from switching it in altogether, which means that Waffle could've had his Garchomp use Dig against Regirock, without fear of it being countered by Angela switching in her Charizard.
(A counter to her counter, in other words.)

Of course, all of this is arguably just me nitpicking (I'm an obsessive person, I can't help myself), and 1 crucial question still remains unanswered: is Dig a good move for Garchomp?

"…It's really obvious that Waffle's big problem on that battle was that Garchomp wasn't trained at all.
Seriously Dig can never replace Earthquake, what the h***. I bet Waffle didn't use Dig cause he thought it's a great move but just because he didn't bother to look up good moves for his Garchomp."

"…and don't forget we are talking about Garchomp, it's like choosing Ember over Flamethrower."

This commentator is mostly correct insofar as that Dig isn't as good of a move as Earthquake (under most circumstances, anyway), but he is absolutely wrong about it never being able to able to replace Earthquake, because in many situations, it can, and the power difference between the 2 moves is nowhere near the power difference between Ember and Flamethrower.



Now, IF you were going to teach a Garchomp Dig instead of Earthquake, what would be a good moveset for one?

Here are a few examples of good Garchomp movesets that include Dig, including one that I use on one of my main Garchomps, whom I nicknamed "Rikuzame".
(Rikuzame means "land shark" in Japanese, BTW, and Gible is called the "Rikuzame Pokemon" in the Japanese version of its Pokédex entry.)

[spoiler=Rikuzame, the Ultimate Digging Garchomp] Garchomp-Mega @ Garchompite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Outrage
-Dig
-Stone Edge
-Fire Blast

Rikuzame (like any Garchomp with a good moveset) has VERY good type coverage, allowing it to strike at Pokémon that your opponent may switch in simply by using a different move.
(Rather than all of that switching back and forth that competitive Single battlers apparently love so much.)

She Mega Evolves, which means that she has good Sp. Attack (172 at level 50), and having Fire Blast in her moveset allows her to easily take out Steel-type Pokémon with high Defense stats (Metagross, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, etc.), even if Dig can't hit them.
(Which can be an issue if they have an Air Balloon, for example.)

Much like Cynthia's Garchomp, Rikuzame's Stone Edge would've OHKO'd Angela's Charizard, while her Fire Blast and Dig would've taken out Angela's Metagross and Regirock, respectively.
(And Dig would do pretty good damage against her Metagross as well, BTW.)

"…and last of all what the f*** is that mega Garchomp, it looks like it was made specially to counter Angela's team, but even Earthquake would be 100 times a better choice over dig LOL"

Again, this commentator is correct that Earthquake would be better than Dig in this situation (and in most Single battles, TBH), but this doesn't change the fact that Rikuzame could've easily defeated Angela's team with her current moveset (which includes Dig), and she has defeated numerous teams (both of players and NPCs alike) that weren't Garchomp chum like the 3 Pokémon Angela chose to use in this battle.
(And Rikuzame's had this same moveset since 2015, BTW.)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Cynthia's Undella Town Garchomp (Modified B2/W2 Version)] Garchomp-Mega @ Garchompite
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
-Dragon Rush
-Dig
-Stone Edge
-Fire Blast

Essentially, all I did was take the moveset that Cynthia'sGarchomp has when you battle her in her villa in Undella Town (in Black and White Versions 2, anyway), replaced Earthquake with Dig, and gave it a Garchompite (this version of Cynthia's Garchomp normally has no held item), and then trained their stats for a mixed Mega Garchomp moveset.

You'll notice that it is only 1 move off from my own Rikuzame, and while I wouldn't recommend going with a moveset like this (with Earthquake or Dig) for a Garchomp that you aren't going to Mega Evolve (despite the fact that Cynthia doesn't do this with hers), this is an AWESOME moveset for a Mega Garchomp, and is somewhat more flexible than my own Rikuzame, due to it knowing Dragon Rush instead of Outrage.
(I would go into more detail, but this blog is supposed to be about Garchomps that know Dig, not which Dragon-type moves are best for one.)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Waffle's Garchomp (Improved Version A)] Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Dig
-Crunch
-Stealth Rock

OK, I pretty much never run Stealth Rock on Garchomp myself, but all I did was take Waffle's Garchomp, fixed up their stats (which gives it 169 Speed, faster than the fastest Charizard), gave it a Focus Sash (IDK what his Garchomp was holding), and replaced that 4th unused move with Stealth Rock.

Now to be clear, I am NOT recommending that anyone actually use this Garchomp in battle (unless you want to for some strange reason), as a Garchomp without Swords Dance and/or a Mega Stone is far from ideal, but this Garchomp still could've done good against Angela's team in this battle, simply by using Stealth Rock on the first turn, and then using Dig.

Crunch is super effective against Metagross, Dig is super effective against Regirock, and as we saw in the video, Dragon Claw does fairly well against Charizard, so just adding Stealth Rock to his moveset (as weird as it is IMO) would more or less fix his Garchomp's type coverage problem.
(In this battle, anyway.)[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Waffle's Garchomp (Improved Version B)]
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Claw
-Dig
-Rock Slide
-Swords Dance

This Garchomp's moveset is still pretty similar to Waffle's (they both know Dragon Claw and Dig), but unlike his Garchomp, this one has Swords Dance (which increases the damage that Garchomp inflicts with all of its physical moves by roughly 100% with each use) and Rock Slide, which means not only that it could've done better in this battle, but that it could (possibly) work against a better though out team, as well.

I still wouldn't recommend using this moveset myself (even with Swords Dance, Garchomp would likely be better off with stronger moves than Dig and Dragon Claw), but I've used similar Garchomps to this before, and it can still easily sweep though a team that isn't properly prepared to handle a Garchomp, like the 3 Pokémon Angela chose to use in this battle.
(Despite the fact that she saw Waffle's Garchomp in Team Preview.)[/spoiler]



Any one of these Garchomps (and countless others that I'm either too lazy or too secretive to share with y'all, lol) wou'ld've been able to defeat Angela's team, despite knowing Dig, and I suspect that there are numerous other battle videos out there that show Garchomps using Earthquake (which is undeniably one of Garchomp's best moves), where it wouldn't have made any difference whether or not the Trainer had their Garchomp use Dig or Earthquake.
(If someone can show me or explain to me a scenario where this minor difference in damage and/or the 2 turn move thing makes some crucial difference, I would very much like you to share it with me.)

Yes, there are means of countering 2 turn moves (especially Dig), and if your opponent happens to have one of them on their team when you choose to use such a move (which is why it's generally a bad idea to use these moves on the very first turn of a battle), and you don't properly prepare yourself for these counters beforehand (by giving your Pokémon a moveset with good type coverage, like my Landorus' one), it could backfire on you, but that is by no means a reason to avoid teaching Pokémon these moves when the damage numbers and type coverage considerations suggest that you should do otherwise, as is often the case with Dig and Fly.

"…You should have picked a different Pokemon for your argument to make sense. Like Leafeon idk"

Yes, Dig is a good move for Leafeon, and I will cover it in a future blog in this series.

"…I will likely know what Pokemon that's switching in, thanks to Team Previewer (the thing right before the match)."

This is absolutely correct, and this applies just as much when using 2 turn moves as it does when using any other moves.
(It's all about thinking ahead, and anticipating what your opponent is going to do before they do it.)

I once mentioned in one of the chatrooms here on Paint how a Salamence could counter an opponent switching in a Ferrothorn to counter Fly by using Fire Blast afterwords, and I have since nicknamed using 2 turn moves in this way "Fly-fishing", after the move Fly.

Based upon my own personal experience using 2 turn moves in Single battles (both against NPCs and against actual human players), and based on the fact that Angela chose to use Dragon Pulse on Garchomp instead of switching Pokémon again in this battle video, I'd say that this "Fly-fishing" trick of mine can work in battles against human opponents, even if they are skilled competitive players.

[spoiler=Does Fly-fishing really work?]"…If we are talking about single battles you really can't "fish" anything with 2 turn moves,maybe a specific Pokemon like the Ferrothorn you mentioned. But even there you are wrong cause why would you put Fly and Fire Blast on a Salamence when it has better moves to deal with a Ferrothorn. Just think about it: Fly takes 2 turns and makes contact with Ferrothorn (ouch) if Ferrothorn switches and you used Fire Blast there goes your plan. Totally useless moves…"

There are numerous things that you could "fish" out with 2 turn moves like Fly and Dig, and which Pokémon you could successfully bait out and ambush with Fly-fishing would depend upon the moveset of the Pokémon with the 2 turn move, as well as your opponent's team.
(Which, as has already been mentioned, you could see with Team Preview before the battle starts.)

As for these "better moves to deal with a Ferrothorn", there is LITERALLY no better move in Salamence's movepool for dealing with Ferrothorn than Fire Blast, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying or misinformed.

If someone wanted to argue that Flamethrower or Heat Wave would be better to deal with Ferrothorn (or most other Steel-types with an annoyingly high Defense stat, for that matter) due to their higher accuracy, I would certainly not argue against that, but if (as I suspect) they are arguing against the idea of a mixed moveset on Salamence, or even against the idea of teaching it a Fire-type move altogether (even Fire Fang), then it needs to be pointed out that Fire-type moves inflict 4× against Ferrothorn, and that Fire Blast could potentially OHKO a Ferrothorn.
(The same cannot be said of Salamence's other Steel coverage moves, such as Brick Break or Earthquake.)

Below is the damage that a Salamence with 162 Sp. Attack would inflict against a Ferrothorn with 184 Sp. Defense, the highest possible Sp. Defense stat it can have at level 50:

Fire Blast

151-178

Fire Blast (crit)

227-267

Also, although I'm going to cover this in more detail in the next blog in this series (which will be about my Landorus moveset), I would like to mention that Iron Barbs would inflict 21 points of damage on Salamence if they flew into a Ferrothorn, and if the Ferrothorn was holding a Rocky Helmet, then it would inflict an additional 21 points damage.
(Assuming the Salamence is level 50 and has 170 HP, anyway.)[/spoiler]

"Whoa! You countered my counter of your counter to my counterattack! Amazing!"

—Battle Girl Heine