Abortions

Holy poop.
K for one..
"Now im going to assume all your parents are pro-life. Because if they were not then you would be dead. Did you think of that?"
Nope, because people who are PRO-CHOICE support a woman's CHOICE meaning you can have the baby OR abort it OR put it up fr adoption. I think you're confusing pro-choice with anti-human race or something. I'm pro-choice and I plan on being a mother one day so it's perfectly possible.

"One more thing is that "Oh she might die because of illness but she wont if she aborts." well have any of you heard of St. Geona? She was told that she would die if she didnt abort the baby. But she didn't and her daughter is still alive. "
OH, so just because ONE person survived, beating many odds, everybody should risk their life to deliver a baby into the world that might be parentless if they die?

"The baby could amount to something as well, what if the baby would have found a cure for cancer."

This is only logical if you believe that all of our lives are predetermined and we are going to do certain things that we can't change, otherwise well the baby was aborted so no it wasn't going to find a cure for cancer...

"just because your living conditions are horrible, that doesn't mean your doomed to illiteracy or anything else like that. " you're* haha also, there's an EXTREMELY high chance they will be "doomed" to poverty/being uneducated/turnign to crime/having unplanned pregnancies themselves/etc

unwanted babies are also more likely to end up in jail, have unwanted children themselves, be abused, be on welfare in the future, drop out, etc than "wanted" (or planned) children.

"Ok i know rape is bad of coarse and sure they might not be able to support them but look at some of the third world areas. They live in wood shacks with dessies and poor living condition but u dont see them having abortions. " I almost had a poop when i saw this. THERE ARE NO SAFE ABORTION CENTRES IN THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES that is the most ignorant thing i've ever heard.

"also if the person was stupid enough to go and have sex and get pregnant before they were married and financialy stable then they should bear their cross and have the babby"
I find it offensive that you call people who have sex stupid, everybody has sex, chances are they didn't try to get pregnant if they didn't want/couldn't afford a baby. Some people use every protection and precaution possible and are still unlucky enough to get pregnant. It's not their faults

I WARNED YOU ABOUT STAIRS, BRO!

Also, in developing countries, the churches have them believing that if if they use birth control, god will bludgeon their genitals with a club.

Goodbye my only friend. Oh, did you think I meant you?

now how would any of you like it, if your parents had a talk about aborting you,but opted out at the last minute? and as for"Fetuses can't think?" how are you to know? If it were unable to think. It wouldn't be able to operate, sure the mother supplies the food, but the body still has to accept it, which, suprise,causes thinking on the body's behalf.
how would you like it if you saw a mother throw a newborn unto a busy highway? I guess nothing since they can't think?

Mother Monster's favorite child!

The cells follow their function, but do not produce thought.
And a newborn CAN think, because it has develloped more fully.
And it would be my parent's choice, not mine.

Goodbye my only friend. Oh, did you think I meant you?

colmaniac those are involuntary functions, do you have to think in order to digest food? no, your body does it automatically. Also, Sniper that's propaganda, ths is information from the planned parenthood website

there are two types of abortions, the abortion pill and an in-clinic abortion

the abortion pill:
The abortion pill is a medicine that ends an early pregnancy. In general, it can be used up to 63 days — 9 weeks — after the first day of a woman's last period. Women who need an abortion and are more than 9 weeks pregnant can have an in-clinic abortion.

The name for "the abortion pill" is mifepristone. It was called RU-486 when it was being developed.

STEP ONE — THE ABORTION PILL
Your health care provider will give you the abortion pill at the clinic. You will also be given some antibiotics to start taking after the abortion pill.

The abortion pill works by blocking the hormone progesterone. Without progesterone, the lining of the uterus breaks down, and pregnancy cannot continue.
STEP TWO — MISOPROSTOL
You will take a second medicine — misoprostol. It causes the uterus to empty.
STEP THREE — FOLLOW-UP
You will need to follow up within two weeks. Follow-up is important to make sure your abortion is complete and that you are well. You will need an ultrasound or blood test.

medical

D&E — DILATION AND EVACUATION
During a D&E

Your health care provider will examine you and check your uterus.
You will get medication for pain. You may be offered sedation or IV medication to make you more comfortable.
You will be given antibiotics to prevent infection.
In later second-trimester procedures, you may also need a shot through your abdomen to make sure there is fetal demise before the procedure begins.
Your health care provider will inject a numbing medication into or near your cervix.
Medical instruments and a suction machine gently empty your uterus.

ASPIRATION ABORTION — THE MOST COMMON KIND OF IN-CLINIC ABORTION
During an aspiration abortion

Your health care provider will examine your uterus.
You will get medicine for pain. You may be offered sedation — a medicine that allows you to be awake but deeply relaxed.
Your health care provider may inject a numbing medication into or near your cervix.
You will be given antibiotics to prevent infection.
A tube is inserted through the cervix into the uterus.
Either a hand-held suction device or a suction machine gently empties your uterus.
Sometimes, an instrument called a curette is used to remove any remaining tissue that lines the uterus. It may also be used to check that the uterus is empty.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/abortion-4260.asp

I WARNED YOU ABOUT STAIRS, BRO!

Sniper, don't believe everything you're told.

Goodbye my only friend. Oh, did you think I meant you?

The distinguished Craaig spake:

The baby has no clue/idea in what is happening, you're not killing a life if the life hasn't even started.

Depends how old the baby is.
Sure its still a "life", but baby doesn't know whats going on.

How can you forgive if you can't forget?

i believe if god wanted you to have that baby you should keep it. it is another life. just think if your mom got an abortion. you wouldnt be here

♪THE SECRET SIDE OF ME I NEVER LET YOU SEE, I KEEP IT CAGED BUT I CAN'T CONTROL IT♪

↑I hate people like you, ALOT.

People used to think like that before, "Have as many kids god sends you" Seriously?
My moms family has about 9 brothers, why?, because of the goddam awful beliefs the church gave to people.

I alredy stated my opinion and made everyone shut it before, i am not going to debate again.
Just: All Pro-life people are idiots.

↑ ladies and gentlemen....the reason why this world is a bad place....people like winter icefox

♪THE SECRET SIDE OF ME I NEVER LET YOU SEE, I KEEP IT CAGED BUT I CAN'T CONTROL IT♪

An awful lot of your arguments are either attempts to appeal to emotion or rhetorical questions based on entirely different circumstances. Both are logical fallacies and are not solid points on which to build an argument.

Black holes suck.

This is a prime example of a lovely and disturbingly common fallacy called 'petitio principii' wherein you make a proposition which relies upon its own premise to be correct. This often stems from deeply ingrained ideas and beliefs that have no objective or logical reasoning, but are simply believed to be unquestionably true. Consequently, said person will often not spot the fallacy, as they simply take for granted ideas that others may not see as true.

In this scenario, your proposition relies on the premise that authority can be measured in an objective and concrete form, which it cannot. It is entirely subjective and opinion-based. There is no way to accurately gauge the measure of authority given to any one person to do anything. Consequently your argument is null.

Black holes suck.

Again, you are making presumptions and basing your arguments on them, which is not a healthy practice. The scenario is entirely different in both cases and cannot be compared. In the case of the embryos being killed, they are still at a very early stage, and will be killed for good reasons.

For example, if the mother is too young, financially insecure, or mentally unstable to handle caring for a baby, those are legitimate justifications for abortion.

If you have a child who has already been born, then evidently the parent did not wish to abort it in the first place, and so there would be no reason to want to kill it now.

Black holes suck.

You are again making exactly the same fallacy as your last few points, where you take something that you believe strongly for granted to the point where you present it as a premise on which your argument relies. Consequently, your first point is null, until you can legitimately explain in exact terms just why there is 'no justification.'

In fact, what if the mother were to die in childbirth because they were too young or
weak to handle it? You've just killed off a perfectly good, fully functioning human, on the off chance that the baby is able to survive and become successful in its own life.

Secondly, the difference between killing the baby with the mental disorder and killing the foetus before it develops is that in the first case, the baby with the mental disorder is already a lot more developed than the foetus, regardless of how handicapped it may be.

Even so, that is not evidence enough in itself, however the fact is that if you want your baby dead, you're going to want to kill it when it's easiest for yourself and involves the least controversy. If you can't handle looking after the baby, then kill it before it's conscious, or even remotely developed for that matter. It is easiest, quickest, and reduces any risks to the mother. If you want to keep the baby, then keep it, regardless of its mental condition.

In the end, it really comes down to a matter of how much effort it takes in either scenario.

As for your second point, people do take benefits, but sometimes money isn't the only problem. Sometimes their home is not an adequate place to raise a baby, or they are still in full-time education and don't have the time to look after their own baby and still safely get good results in school.

It's also funny how you people always default to adoption. You're essentially saying to the child, "Your parents didn't want you, have someone else instead."

Even in the off chance that they aren't mentally crippled by the knowledge for their entire life, you're also gambling on the fact that people are actually going to adopt them. There are far more people who are getting abortions than there are people who want to adopt a child. You can't just stockpile the children in the hope that someone will find it in themselves to adopt one.

Furthermore, you seem to hold the life of an undeveloped embryo as of equal status to an entire human adult, despite that they are merely a cell or two large. Tell me then, do you hold the same principle when it comes to contraception? Those little reproductive cells had so much potential, until some horrible, inhumane person decided to kill them off by using contraceptive precautions. By your own reckoning, even the tiniest human cell is just as important as a whole, so aren't you essentially killing hundreds of babies every time you use contraception?

Also, you are using another lovely fallacy in your second post known as 'appeal to authority,' wherein you compare your premise to someone who is well-known. In this case Justin Beiber. You seem to be falsely assuming that rape babies have any greater a chance of success than a deliberate baby. Indeed, they probably have a lower chance, since it is likely they will have the adverse affects of inadequate parenting, poverty, or mental scarring in the case of adoption, which can lead to depression.

You then ask a leading question, with traces of yet another logical fallacy known as the 'strawman argument,' where you misinterpret or reword your opponent's argument to make it more easy to attack. This is seen in your question "Because what's worse, being raped, or killing your own child?"
For starters this is an ineffective method, since it utilises yet another logical fallacy, appealing to emotions with the absence of fact.
Secondly, I could just as easily turn it around and say "What's worse? Being brutally raped and mentally scarred for the rest of your life, and then forced to carry a baby you didn't want, or bumping off a few little cells which aren't even self-conscious?"

Such strawman arguments are clearly biased and are not legitimate evidence, or indeed not evidence of any kind.

Black holes suck.

Don't accuse me of being hypocritical. At no point have I ever used the phrase "Embryos are a worthless bunch of cells" or anything similar as an actual premise of an argument. Choosing your argument based on your belief is fine, but basing it entirely on something you believe strongly to be true but bears no actual weight as fact is entirely different. I see you've done it again towards the end there. Upon me asking how you know there are no justifications, you have merely repeated yourself in saying "There is no justification." That doesn't tell me what logical process brought you to that conclusion. It simply tells me that's what you believe.

And I wasn't putting words into your mouth, I was posing questions and making valid assumptions. With the adoption thing, you're not going to deliberately have a baby unless you know you can support it, right? Therefore the adopted child was either unloved or was an accident, neither of which are nice things to know.

And you are missing my point on the whole 'child with a mental disorder' thing. If these parents decided they were up for having a child, and they got a child, who cares if it's disabled? What possible reason could they have to want to kill it? If they didn't abort it, that means they knew what they were signing up for to begin with.

While it is possible that I did make a mistake in assuming you hold cells in the same tier as a fully grown human, the principle of my argument remains the same. If you believe that killing cells with the potential to grow into humans is injustifiable, do you hold the same opinion on contraceptives?

Black holes suck.

Epic is going on about how RioluGir's arguments aren't good enough, yet he brings Justin Beiber into his argument on an thread about abortion. I loled.

Anyway, I'm not really for or against abortion, its completely up to the parent, its their child, not mine.
I couldn't care less. You want an abortion? Fine. You want to keep the baby? Also, fine. Not my problem.

I don't have anything intelligent to say.

The distinguished WhaleFreak spake:

Epic is going on about how RioluGir's arguments aren't good enough, yet he brings Justin Beiber into his argument on an thread about abortion. I loled.

Anyway, I'm not really for or against abortion, its completely up to the parent, its their child, not mine.
I couldn't care less. You want an abortion? Fine. You want to keep the baby? Also, fine. Not my problem.

Actually it was him who originally brought up JB.

And Rio, please highlight which parts of my arguments you find to be contradictory, instead of making vague critical remarks.

Black holes suck.

In that case, highlight the parts that you actually find to be illogical. Because whether or not you meant it to be, it was pretty vague.

Black holes suck.

Time to pick up the torch again.
Childbirth is not a fun process. You carry a person within your body for nine months, eat twice as much, vomit frequently, and then release it in a violent explosion of baby and placenta, followed by a hospital bill. Simply putting the kid up for adoption is not the solution.
Also, when a woman has her period, that is a human egg cell which has the potential to become a full grown human. Having your period should be illegal! Same goes for ejaculation. Why not just spawn as many humans as physically possible? That definitely wont bite us in the ass someday.

Goodbye my only friend. Oh, did you think I meant you?

If you plan on killing every thread in this forum and replacing them with other threads that become locked immediately, good luck. The surgical alternative to childbirth is known as a c-section and is still extremely painful and involves carrying the baby for nine months as usual.

And again, nobody agreed to drop this debate, just you, and only you.

Goodbye my only friend. Oh, did you think I meant you?